Lothar V. Richtofen's Yellow Wing Re-re-visited

BobC · 12 November 2016, 10:07 PM

FWIW Back in July, I posted a question re Dr. I/F.I base color, and threw in another query re LvR's 454/17 top wing color. I decided to go with no yellow on the top wing after carefully looking at photos in "The Blue Max Airmen" Vol 8. Pages 97-101 have probably the best-reproduced photos of the crash scene that I have in any other resource available to me. My logic in reaching this decision was: Alex Imrie has postulated that there was a very thin coat of yellow paint on the top wing, allowing the streaking to show through. I can't see this. Why would the yellow paint on the wing be so transparent, if the remainder of the yellow (tail and rear fuselage) was so opaque. So, no yellow on top wing (?).

Also, in looking at these photos (page 98), I noticed what looks to me to be the reflection of the rudder and rudder cross in the paint. So it seems that the yellow paint was extremely gloss. Then today, I just discovered this posting from Dan-San Abbot.

Hope someone gets something from all this. Comments welcome.
Bob

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Imrie has stated the upper wing was painted yellow on the fokker DR.I that Lothar von Richthofen was flying when he was shot down and crashed on 13 March 1918. I have the combat report where the victor describes the triplane as having a red nose and yellow tail, however there is no mention of a yellow upper wing. the victor goes into some detail describing the the failure of the upper, but does not describe the wing being yellow. I refer you to Squadron Signal's "Fokker DR.I In Action",pp 17 and 20. On p.17 Nowarra has the caption wrong, it is Lothar's Dr.I from Jasta 11.
Note the grey value of the yellow rear fuselage, tailplane and rudder. I draw your attention to the left upper wing tip, note the streaking on the aileron and leading edge. On p.20 the streaking is more evident and the red cowl can be seen. What is really evident is the remaining cross field on the aileron has been over painted dark olive brown and it is in distinct contrast to the rudder. Note the streaking on the leading edge. Your opinions.

Barry Hickson · 13 November 2016, 01:47 PM

That seems pretty conclusive!
However it does not prove that other Triplanes flown by LvR did not have a yellow top wing.

Are there any photos of pre or subsequent Dr.I's that might prove or disprove?

BobC · 13 November 2016, 04:27 PM

Hi Barry,
Quite true about other triplanes. No, I am not aware of any photos that approach that subject, but that means nothing.
Thanks for reading, Bob

sator · 13 November 2016, 10:17 PM

I beleive all Staffel Leaders had their upper wing painted in their personal color for identifcation purposes and Barry made a good point about which plane he might have been flying.

gipsymoth236k · 15 November 2016, 06:42 PM

I've seen several photos taken at different angles of LvR's crashed 454/17 Fokker Dr.I Triplane. Wouldn't it be a great study to post them here for opinion as to the topwing surface color?

My thoughts,
Gary

ONEALM · 16 November 2016, 12:20 PM

What's all the fuss about, it was yellow... see.. I have proof....

BobC · 16 November 2016, 11:23 PM

Yes, yes, of course. But it IS the wrong color yellow. Isn't it?
It doesn't match my Misterkit Jasta 10 Yellow. (LOL -- Just messin'with ya!)

Laserlloyd · 17 November 2016, 09:28 AM

The cowling is not Yellow. Opp's, we're not talking about Voss's 103/17. Thanks goodness....

As far as I know I have always known it to be Yellow.

Here is my old Page on Dr. 454/17 My Dr.I 454/17 Page

I think I have seen better images from Greg and will take a look to see if I have a better image of the crash photos.

Lloyd...

PS, Mike, I love that Plane...

sator · 17 November 2016, 11:42 PM

I think the dark olive around the cross area,s that was once white gives the appearance of a thin coat of yellow because those aera,s are so dark. It sure could have used another coat or maybe they just ran out of yellow paint or did,nt have time to do it or thought it was good enough. Who knows ?

womenfly2 · 18 November 2016, 04:45 AM

Yellow pigment by its nature has very poor opaqueness to it. It requires many coats to make it opaque. This is why most paint jobs today have a white base coat first. I am sure they did not bother to much applying many coats of paint to make it perfect or a white base coat in time of material shortages and on going missions.

Seeing the under coat of OD through the yellow top coat in my opinion is a correct representation of how the yellow would have looked, same as painting red.

Just my 2¢ worth,
WF2