Was Billy a prevaricator

I would just like to know how many of you out there believe that William Bishop's kill score is correct or that a percentage of his kills are a complete fabrication. I'm just finding it a little hard to believe that a pilot of mediocre skills managed to obtain such an impressive kill score.

[Rittm]

I don't know enough about Bishop to make such a comment, but I bet Al has a few things to say about it.
Rittm

[mike_baram]

Last I heard, Al was sharpening his epée (see previous thread).

[Rittm]

If the epee isn't sharp enough, I have a number of weapons that he might like to select from....a compound bow with sights, a zweihander, German gothic mace (very effective), a katzbalger, a hand and half crusader's sword, several styles of cavalry sabers, a rapier, and a couple of wall hangers. Would any of those be sufficient? Heh, heh.

Rittm

Oh Captain, My Captain,
Firstly when Al Lowe see's this slur, may God have mercy on your soul. Secondly what proof do you have to state that Bishop's flying skill was mediocre. Does that mean that MvR's flying skill was just above average, I don't think so. As for Bishop and his claims I was not there, I have never heard or read about anyone who was there, saying that it did not happen. Until I see such documentation I will have to say that every one of Bishop's victories happened. I am not a Bishop booster, and what I assume happened, is not for me to speculate on. I will never defame someone who is dead, and cannot defend themselves, unless there is proof to support any attack on what they have claimed. To me the young men like Bishop, Little and Dallas, (sorry Al had to throw a couple of Aussie's in there) will always be heroes.

I know that we are all entitled to an opinion but that's all it is without proof. If you have any hard evidence to the contrary please email me I would love to see it.

Lastly I hope this is not just an exercise to bait gentlemen like Al, as Bishop's memory does not deserve it.

Regards,
Andrew Smith.

"Don't come the raw prawn with me."
Old Aussie saying. Translation don't Bulls..t me!

Accept my sincerest apologies to anyone that this may have offended. It's just that i have heard many rumours that most of Bishops kills were never witnessed and therefore may possibly not have happened. I was basically looking for peoples thoughts on this idea, not trying to disgrace the memory of William Bishop.

Captain, I was not offended, but I think that we should all respect these men. I think what your referring to was Bishop's famous attack on an GAF aerodrome, which earned him a VC. I think that it is one of those situations where if the King of England said it happened , well it's good enough for me.

Regards,
Andrew Smith.

P.S sorry to be agro, I may have come across to harsh, but it pisses me off when someone cannot defend themselves against an attack, either verbal or physical.

Don't worry about offending anyone Captain on this particular thread. You're not the first to ask this question nor will you be the last by a very long chalk. Others you might like to consider asking are "Who really shot down the Red Baron" or "Where was the airfield that Bishop attacked and where is the proof that he did so?" That should be good for about 30 replies.
Lets start the ball rolling - again - with a vague memory I have of an exchange of 1970's corres published in Cross and Cockade (UK) between Gwilym Lewis (ex 40 Sqd) and Grid Caldwell of 60 who served under Bishop. At one point I seem to remember Caldwell writing almost in passing "Of Course Bishop claimed many that should have been OOC". Anyone got that issue? Watch what happens now Captain.....

Cheers, Brad

I have my own doubts about Bishop as a person, but from all I've read it certainly seems more than possible for Bishop to have achieved all that he claimed. He was, indeed, a mediocre pilot. But as Von Richthofen among others maintained, piloting skill was secondary to situational awareness and marksmanship, and on all the evidence Bishop was a superb shot. As for SA -- he survived the war.

[Billy_Bishop]

Without getting into the rest of it, my basic reply-question is: What makes you think Billy Bishop was a mediocre pilot?

VBR,
Al Lowe