What Engine is this? Experts only!

[Cigogne]

I need an ID on this engine type. In studying both photos of the BMW IIIa and the Mercedes D.IIIa, aü etc., I am finding differences that I can't reconcile and need a more trained eye to give it a going over. This is taken from a photo at the Fokker factory at Schwerin following the end of hostilities. It appears to be a Fokker D.VII fuselage. But, I could be wrong. I am seeing differences in the engine bearer areas when I compare with other views that I have seen of the BMW IIIa and Mercedes. I'm waiting to go to press and this is the only thing stumping me.

Thanks!

[Dave_Watts]

Hi,

I know the photo well.

Two possibilities;

A BMW IIIa Opel. Basically a BMW under license. The first one accepted in a D.VII was on September 2nd, 1918. Most were accepted in October with the last one being on November 30th. A total of 41 were accepted/recorded on the Armee acceptance sheets.

A Mana 175 III or 180 IIIa. Only 3 acceptances are shown;

1. A III in 4292/18 on July 23rd
2. A IIIa in 10347/18 on November 29th
3. A IIIa in 10348 with no acceptance date.

I'm leaning towards it being a photo of a Mana IIIa. Maybe someone has a good reference photo to confirm.

There were 7 Fokker D.VII's accepted from Fokker with the Austro-Daimler DM 225 (MAG) all on October 1st, 1918.

"93.-" werk numbers; 3861 - 3867.

Best,
Dave W.

[Cigogne]

Dave,

Many thanks. It didn't look at all like the A-D 225 so I hadn't thought it could be that. I also didn't yield any results on the Mana IIIa search on the web. I'll try again, though.

Thanks, as always!

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Dave Watts:
I thought it might be a BMWIIIa too, or a variant, but the cylinder iconfiguration is not correct. BMW has the spark plugs opposed on the lateral center-line and the rocker arm covers are different, I have not seen these before. The cylinder design is like Mercedes D.IIIa series. The crankcase breathers are like Mercedes, I am wondering if this is a D.IIIaüv??
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[Dave_Watts]

Hi all,

For sure it's not an Austo-Daimler as the magnetos would be at the front of the motor. I just wanted to mention it for those interested in unusual production motor installs.

Of interest is the auxiliary generator drive and crankcase pad is on the left of the motor, unlike the Mercedes D.IIIa. The transfer gearcase is visible at the rear of the motor as well as the hold down strap for the generator.

Maybe Franzkait or Joe G. has a photo of the "suspects".

Best,
Dave W.

[Dave_Watts]

Hi,

As I stated, I think it is a photo of a Mana. I found some more detail which conflicts the previous information as to what version it may be.

The Armee acceptance sheets record the motors as I stated, Mana III and Mana IIIa. The latest information has the Mana III - 170ps as produced in 1916. The Mana IIIa - 185ps as produced in 1916 - 17. Lastly a Mana IIIav - 220ps as produced in 1917 - 18. The date of the photograph is from at the earliest, November, 1918, so you would think the motor in the photo if it were a Mana, would be a Mana IIIav, but the acceptance sheet points towards a Mana IIIa.

A small detail, but sometimes the proof is in the details.

Best,
Dave W.

[franzkait]

Experts only , it is not a Fokker D7 fuselage

[franzkait]

It is a Mana engine, so one guy is able to say what engine this is, but what about the aircraft? where are the experts ?

[Cigogne]

Franzkait,

I appreciate your sharp eyes here... I don't know what the fuselage is then. I look forward to finding out!

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Franzkait:
Me too! It has the cut out in the fuselage for mounting a lower wing, the bolt hole is also visible for the from spar attachment fitting, just aft of the rear cabane strut socket. Also it has the chin radiator of the D.VII, so ,that rules outthe V.29, V.34, V.36, aha, it is the Fok.V.38!
Blue skies,
Dan-San