German Fabric identification

jager1 · 28 October 2002, 10:09 PM

Hi

Could anyone help me with identifiying what aircraft this cross may come from.
It is pretty small 18" x 18" and the main background colour seems to be a greyish brown. With a bluish green second colour. There is a reinforcement seam (at the bottom?) and other reinforcement seams where the fabric was attached to the fuselage? framework - on the reverse side you can see the imprints of the wood.
There is a large reinfrced hole and next to this a plate of some description was fixed as the imprint is clearly visible as are the screws for the holes.
Halfway up the fabric there is another slightly smaller reinforced hole (only part visible as this is where the fabric was cut)
The strange thing about this fabric is that it was folded up, a postcard attached and posted home by a British soldier on 27th April 1915- I've no doubt about the originality of this item but I didn't think this type of cross was used so early.
Ray Rimell is of a similar opinion to me that maybe its from an LVG but could any of you wise souls out there shed more light on this.
I can send more pics to anyone that would need them.

Thanks
jager1

jager1 · 28 October 2002, 10:11 PM

Another view

charles · 29 October 2002, 04:52 AM

I've always wondered about these. I saw something just like this on ebay a year or so ago. The same sort of folded-up-german-aircraft-fabric-mailed-home-during-the-war sort of thing. And recently there were two or three more on ebay. Maybe this is one of those. The backs of these pieces of fabric all seem to be about the same color, though the fronts are different.

I don't think one should assume them authentic as the trade in fake fabric is quite brazen. There are specific characteristics of authentic fabric which you can test for. Here is a run-down to get you started.

a. count the number of threads. There should be approximately 54 per inch. The easiest way to count is to shine a light through the front of the fabric and count from the back side. A photographer's lightbox is very handy for this. You will need a good magnifying glass. Lay a ruler alongside the edge and look at both through the glass. If possible, photograph what you see.

b. determine if the fabric is calendered. This is a process by which the fabric is crushed between rollers. If it would be at all helpful, visit The Aero Conservancy web site and scroll down through the German section. You will see several samples. The site is at http://www.aeroconservancy.com

c. take as many photos of the fabric, front and back, especially any stitching. The high resolution the better, though I do not suggest you post them on the aerodrome site as they will take too lomng to load, but make them available to anyone interested in consulting on this. You can certainly send them to me and I would be happy to give you my opinion.

jager1 · 29 October 2002, 06:39 AM

Hi Charles

Thanks for your offer, I'll get some good pics taken and see what you think.
I suppose its always possible it could be a fake (even a very good one) but when I got it, it didn't cost me anything, I am well aware of the excellent copies going around and would only buy such a thing from a reputable dealer but as I'm also aware you can still stumble across rare items that are sold by people that don't know what they are selling.
The paint is pretty cracked in places - not really small cracks and the whole surface has a pretty waxy feel to it, if this is of any help.
It would seem a bit of an obvious mistake for someone taking so much time to fake something to make the cross smaller than generally seen and of the wrong type but then again I'm no expert on these things.

Cheers
jager1

p.s I've checked your site out before Charles- its very interesting

jager1 · 29 October 2002, 06:41 AM

Hi Charles

Thanks for your offer, I'll get some good pics taken and see what you think.
I suppose its always possible it could be a fake (even a very good one) but when I got it, it didn't cost me anything, I am well aware of the excellent copies going around and would only buy such a thing from a reputable dealer but as I'm also aware you can still stumble across rare items that are sold by people that don't know what they are selling.
The paint is pretty cracked in places - not really small cracks and the whole surface has a pretty waxy feel to it, if this is of any help.
It would seem a bit of an obvious mistake for someone taking so much time to fake something to make the cross smaller than generally seen and of the wrong type but then again I'm no expert on these things.

Cheers
jager1

p.s I've checked your site out before Charles- its very interesting

Dan_San_Abbott · 30 October 2002, 03:56 PM

jager1:
The date of 27 April 1915, poses a problem, which causes me to doubt the veracity of the piece of fabric.
The Idflieg directive ordering the white 5 cm border surrounding the iron cross was dated 29 October 1916.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

jager1 · 30 October 2002, 10:38 PM

Hi Dan

Yes the date does seem to be way off, there are several things pointing to it being faked.
It seems strange that someone who took such an effort to fake something like this (impresions of framework holes etc....) would stumble at such an obvious thing like the cross type itself, I must admit I've handled alot of militaria over the years and this really looks (and feels)the part but I'm also aware that there are some excellent fakes out there, I'm glad it didn't cost anything!!

cheers
jager1