4 Squadron AFC

[Terry_Crisp]

Gentlemen,
The models section of the forum has a thread running about A. H. Cobbys Camel(s) D1929 and E1416, both R.P. machines. The difficulty is the rarety of photos or even text defining the markings of the Squadrons a/c. Does a definitive work on AFC markings exist?
At issue are the placement of the serial numbers. It seems that Ruston Proctor marked them in black on the fin but this is not confirmed. How they were arranged on the fin is another mystery as black on PC10 is hard to see in photos.
Large letters adorned the fuselage sides and top starboard wing. Whether this was repeated underneath is open to question.
To add to the complications D1929 was a presentation machine and a photo of an R.P. machine with this marking puts it in the same place occupied by Cobby's famous figure of Charlie Chaplin. Was the presentation lettering removed or was charlie applied over it?
Any help would be much appreciated.
Best regards to all,
Terry

[Vin]

Cobby A H, High Adventure

P 38. A photograph of a line of 5 Camels of 4AFC taken in March 1918. Seriel Numbers in white on the tailplanes. B7406, B7412 able to be read easily.

P 53. Same. D4191

P 54-55. White, under the tailplane. B2404

A number of shots of SE5As of 2AFC throughout the book show seriel numbers in white on the tailplane.

["Junior"]

Hi Terry,

Not sure if you are only interested in the Camels of 4 Sqn AFC, but if you are not, there are some nice profiles of 4 Sqn Snipes on the AFC site which may be of use:

http://www.australianflyingcorps.org.../profiles.html

You may very well have seen these if you are an AFC aficionado, if not, I hope you enjoy!

Junior.

[Terry_Crisp]

Gentlemen,
Thank you for your replies. Unfortunately My copy of HIGH ADVENTURE is a wartime (2) paperback and does not have those photos. If you could see your way clear to post them here I'd really love to see them.
All the serials you mention were Ruston Proctor Camels except D4191 which I cannot find in my references. So many R.P. have come up in this inquiry that it would seem they were contracted to provide a/c to the AFC. This is just my guess and I have nothing concrete to back it up.
The AFC web site is very interesting but of little help on this subject.
The SE 5 serials are not relevant because the application of serials varied from maker to maker and from batch to batch. My present search is for photos of Camels in the ranges of D1776-D1975 and E1401-E1600. The assumption being that the style would not likely vary within a batch.
Thank you for your help,
Terry

[Graeme]

Terry

D4191 was a Sopwith Pup, not a Camel - explains why you have no reference material for it!

Graeme

I have both the 1943 reprint, and the Kookaburra edition.
In the WW2 one, there is a drawing of E1416/A, showing a black A under the right bottom wing, just outboard of the undercart. Art is by Gerald Muir, who died a couple of years ago.
Facing page 145.
Serial is on the rudder, presented in two lines;
E
1416 thus. Black, outlined in white on the dark, rear band, starboard side.
From fin forward, serial, A -Roundel- [] (white bar vertical)

Other drawing illustrating aircraft, A, facing page 151 does not have A
underside displayed.

Facing page 112 aircraft B, no serial displayed, but port side view, Vertical bar, roundell, B then no serial at all.

A few days later...
Note that the E is above the 4, not to the left margin as appears in the thread. I put it in correctly....but the machine shifted it.