Captured Nieuport 11 in Imperial German service

Olson · 6 July 2007, 02:20 PM

I am completing a 1/4 scale Nieuport 11 which I would like to finish as the aircraft forced down by Lt Kurt Student (better known as General der Fallschirmjaeger in the second world war) in 1916. He converted it for his own use by installing an interrupter geared Spandau, adding Maltese cross markings, a few personal markings, and repainting it in a "light" color variously described as light grey, silver, or possibly light blue (a la Nieuport). This is well demonstrated on at least one surviving photograph which is copied on p64 of the Osprey Aircraft of the Aces #73 "Early German Aces", showing Student posing beside the refinished Nieuport as well as his trusty E III. I think careful analysis of this photo suggests that the color was actually white. The color value of the N 11 is nearly identical to the (white) rudder of the adjacent Eindecker, and there is no discernable color difference or separation from the field, or surround, enclosing the maltese crosses from the color of the entire remainder of the plane, as was the standard at the time. Mention is also made in the same publication of a "white Halberstadt" about the same time. Incedental note can be made of a darker colored band around the cowl which does not conform to the other dark bands on the airplane resulting from sun shadow. Could this be a portion of the cowl left in it's original natural aluminum finish?

Most of these refinishes were field applied. I think that the standard Silver color was introduced with the Pfalz D III (somewhat later) and I doubt that the mechanics had a stock of French Nieuport blue in field inventory. To my (limited) knowledge no other standard finishes were done in light grey at this time, although it is certainly possible that sufficient quantity of any of the aforementioned colors might be 'requisitioned" by the ground crews for a single paint job. If anyone can provide any confirmation (or refutation) of my presumptions I would appreciate hearing from you. Otherwise, I'll attempt to convince the judges with these highly speculative arguments.

Uhlan · 6 July 2007, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olson

I am completing a 1/4 scale Nieuport 11 which I would like to finish as the aircraft forced down by Lt Kurt Student (better known as General der Fallschirmjaeger in the second world war) in 1916. He converted it for his own use by installing an interrupter geared Spandau, adding Maltese cross markings, a few personal markings, and repainting it in a "light" color variously described as light grey, silver, or possibly light blue (a la Nieuport). This is well demonstrated on at least one surviving photograph which is copied on p64 of the Osprey Aircraft of the Aces #73 "Early German Aces", showing Student posing beside the refinished Nieuport as well as his trusty E III. I think careful analysis of this photo suggests that the color was actually white. The color value of the N 11 is nearly identical to the (white) rudder of the adjacent Eindecker, and there is no discernable color difference or separation from the field, or surround, enclosing the maltese crosses from the color of the entire remainder of the plane, as was the standard at the time. Mention is also made in the same publication of a "white Halberstadt" about the same time. Incedental note can be made of a darker colored band around the cowl which does not conform to the other dark bands on the airplane resulting from sun shadow. Could this be a portion of the cowl left in it's original natural aluminum finish?

Most of these refinishes were field applied. I think that the standard Silver color was introduced with the Pfalz D III (somewhat later) and I doubt that the mechanics had a stock of French Nieuport blue in field inventory. To my (limited) knowledge no other standard finishes were done in light grey at this time, although it is certainly possible that sufficient quantity of any of the aforementioned colors might be 'requisitioned" by the ground crews for a single paint job. If anyone can provide any confirmation (or refutation) of my presumptions I would appreciate hearing from you. Otherwise, I'll attempt to convince the judges with these highly speculative arguments.

There are fairly few sources on these German early war colors. Any repainting and modifying of this aircraft, if it was done in the field, would have been carried out by maintenance personnel either at his own unit or a near by maintenance park. If the mechanics repainted the Nieuport's entire airframe they would have used paints readily available which were the white/light-gray/light-blue paints used on contemporary German two seaters. If this was a Fokker E or a C-type machine we could make some educated guesses based on surviving fabric samples, capture reports and contemporary camouflage specification. However, since this was very much a custom job your guess is as good as anybody's

Taking a quick look at the photo on page 64 and knowing a few things about orthochromatic film and what sub optimal exposure values will do to a photo I'd make the following educated guess, and keep in mind that unlike other people here I'm no expert :

The cowling seems to have been left in natural metal.
The color used on the fuselage was either the original French CDL or some rather dark color, probably gray.

IMHO if the Nieuport was in reasonably good nick when he got it Student (or rather his mechanics, an officer would be unlikely to stoop so low as to perform maintenance tasks) would have little reason to overpaint the entire airframe unless they recovered it entirely with new fabric. The German Cross Pattée markings and their white background squares were big enough to cover the original French markings. Keep in mind that if he had had the entire aircraft's orignal French fabric covering over-painted Student's men would have added a not inconsiderable weight of paint to the airframe and this was an era when carrying a one or two extra Lewis magazines or an extra Lewis gun had a distinguishable effect on performance. So the Germans probably made due with over-painting the French roundels with Crosses Pattée and equipping the Le Rhone engine with an interrupter gear either taken from the spares supply or salvaged from a written off Fokker Eindecker.

P.S. The rudder was probably either repainted entirely or recovered before the Cross Pattée was applied otherwise the rudder stripes would show. In the photo on page 65 the aircraft has clearly been painted white or very light blue all over so it was either recovered at some time in its career or the paint job didn't affect performance enough to matter.

Olson · 7 July 2007, 06:03 AM

Thanks Uhlan, your critique is much appreciated. I have to correct myself about the photograph I referenced in my original post. As my description of it might reveal, I was referring to the photo of the refinished N 11 as seen in the image on page 65 (not that on p 64) in which Lt Student is posed standing between the "light colored" Nieuport and his usual mount (Fok E IV).
This is the basis for my initial conjecture as to the possibility of white as the color of the refinished Nieuport (comparing the color value of the entire Nieuport to the value of the adjacent white Eindecker rudder, the complete lack of a color separation or differentiation from the overall color of the airplane by any background field or surround enclosing the cross puttee located on the under surface of the upper wing). If you reexamine the photo, you can observe a distinct band of dark coloration around the sides of the cowl which is not in conformity with the shadows of the prop or wing which also produce oblique bands of dark coloration across the fuselage and cowl.
My reference to field modification was pure conjecture and I agree with you that a complete repainting was likely to burden the plane with excess weight.
One wonders if a complete fabric replacement was within the capability of the maintainance staff however.

Uhlan · 7 July 2007, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olson

Thanks Uhlan, your critique is much appreciated. I have to correct myself about the photograph I referenced in my original post. As my description of it might reveal, I was referring to the photo of the refinished N 11 as seen in the image on page 65 (not that on p 64) in which Lt Student is posed standing between the "light colored" Nieuport and his usual mount (Fok E IV).
This is the basis for my initial conjecture as to the possibility of white as the color of the refinished Nieuport (comparing the color value of the entire Nieuport to the value of the adjacent white Eindecker rudder, the complete lack of a color separation or differentiation from the overall color of the airplane by any background field or surround enclosing the cross puttee located on the under surface of the upper wing). If you reexamine the photo, you can observe a distinct band of dark coloration around the sides of the cowl which is not in conformity with the shadows of the prop or wing which also produce oblique bands of dark coloration across the fuselage and cowl.
My reference to field modification was pure conjecture and I agree with you that a complete repainting was likely to burden the plane with excess weight.
One wonders if a complete fabric replacement was within the capability of the maintenance staff however.

Well I have been thinking about modeling this plane as well although I work in somewhat smaller scales (1/72) and I was thinking about building it in it's earlier form.

I read Osprey book #73 and while I liked it a lot it contains some errors. The profile of Student's refinished Nieuport on page 43 in Osprey #73 is somewhat inaccurate. As you pointed out (and generally I agree), after being refinished it was most likely white, slightly off white or possibly very light white-ish blue and it had a painted cowling with what looks to me like a decorative band painted on it while the profile has a natural metal cowling. Often you can distinguish a faint difference between the white background fields of the Cross Pattée and pale-blue/gray/off-white paint on the fuselage but not always. The cowling band might have been purely random or it might have had some regional/sub-national, cultural or regimental significance. Perhaps it would pay off to go into Student's background? I haven't read his biography or those of other members of his unit which might even contain a description of this aircraft. German WWI pilots were drawn from all branches of the army, cavalry, infantry, artillery, fortress garrisons, engineers, railway-troops etc. and they often decorated their aircraft with, say... regimental colors or the flag colors of their province. The marking on the wheels could also have been red or orange which show up as black on orthochromatic film. There is of course also the possibility that this picture wasn't taken with orthochromatic film in which case it was probably black.

To sum up, before overhaul/refinishing I think this Nieuport looked something like this:

Original French finish all over. Now that I think about it the finish may have been the Green/Brown scheme introduced on Nieuports in 1916 rather than CDL.
Crosses Pattée covered French roundels.
The rudder was either over-painted to hide the French rudder flash or recovered before the Cross pattée was applied.

After overhaul/refinishing:

Slightly off-white, or very light gray or white-ish blue all over.
black, red or orange 'flowers' on the wheel disks.
Swords on fuselage were probably black or perhaps steel gray? It's impossible to tell.

Also keep in mind that the gun used on this machine was probably not a Maxim lMG 08/15 it was one of the earlier standard Maxim MG 08 ground guns with a perforated water jacket. Basically the same gun as used on Fokker E series fighters. This mistake is sometimes made.

P.S. Another example of an inaccuracy in Osprey #73 is the profile of Buddecke's E.III 96/15 on page 41. It labels the aircraft as having looked like this while stationed at Galata in December 1915 during the battle of Canakkale (aka. Gallipoli) but it was only repainted in Ottoman national markings when these were introduced in April 1916. To be fair, other than this, it's probably almost spot on.

Gregvan · 15 July 2007, 11:26 AM

Hi,

First of all, please accept my apologies for not responding to this thread sooner. I've been terribly busy trying to finish another book by deadline, which will probably contain even more errors than Aircraft of the Aces 73.

First I'd like to thank Uhlan for pointing out the mistakes in Aces 73. As I said in the colour plate commentary on page 91, "The colour has been shown as a light blue as per its original French undersurface colour, but white is also possible." As I try to make clear in all of my captions, the choice of color is always a judgement call, and you have to make your choice and follow it while still making deadlines, satsifying the artist, etc. There are no surviving references to the colors of this aircraft, and I had to go with a provisional choice. This aircraft was painted in the French green and brown top surface camouflage when captured. Alan Toelle advised me that the underside was probably in the French "horizon blue' undersurface color.

More to come.

Gregvan · 15 July 2007, 11:36 AM

Hi,

Here's another, much poorer photo of the Nieuport 11 N1324 of Lt. Jean Raty of Escadrille 35, in its original French camouflage just after capture and before any German markings were applied.

As you can see in these two images, the "colored band" on the cowling was not added by Student. In my humble opinion this is not a colored band at all but merely a difference in the finishing of the natural metal of the cowling. As the the curvature of the surface changes from the "straight" edge of the aft portion of the cowling to the curved edge which comes down perpendicular to the line of flight, the finish of the metal changes as well. If you'll look at a lot of photos of French Nieuport 11s and 16s, you'll see this effect in many photos.

Greg

Gregvan · 15 July 2007, 11:45 AM

As noted, it would seem that Student may have initially flown this Nieuport in its standard French camouflage on the upper surfaces. It's quite clear that this machine was in pretty pristine shape when Student acquired it.Student had the German national insignia applied to the rudder and underside of the wings, and most likely the top surface as well. The French tricolour on the rudder was probably overpainted a neutral color (or else entirely re-covered, which seems unlikely to me), then the German national insignia was applied.

By this time the German machine gun has been installed, and a rack for flare cartridges is mounted on the port side of the cockpit. A German anemometer type ASI has been installed on the port interplane strut.

Greg

Gregvan · 15 July 2007, 11:56 AM

Hi,

Then, at some point the appearance of the aircraft changed radically. Now it appeared in an entirely pale finish. Yes, it could have been white. Unfortunately the rudder does not show in either of the photos of the machine in this finish. I realized that the painting over of all the upper surfaces of this machine would have added weight; but it seemed more likely to me than having the entire aircraft re-covered. There is considerable documentary evidence that many German two-seaters of this period were in "white" finishes (a generic term) and that these might be clear-doped, clear-doped bleached linen, or light blue or light grey. I opted for a light blue that matched the French undersurface color. As I said, this was a provisional judgment call.

You'll note that the wheel discs were also overpainted.

Gregvan · 15 July 2007, 12:04 PM

Hi,

I swiped this photo from an ebay auction a long, long time ago.

I was unable to bid successfully on this photo, thus this low-res scan was all I had. This scan was obviously not appropriate for inclusion in the Osprey book but it was supplied to Harry Dempsey and was the focus of our intense discussions about this aircraft. It did provide more details of the crossed swords insignia. As you can see, there is still a tonal difference between the main undersurface color of the wing and the white panel for the national insignia. This led me to make the choice of a light blue for the entire aircraft, as I believed it was likely (but not confirmed) that they might have painted the entire aircraft to roughly match the undersurface color. Yes, it's also possible the upper surfaces were painted white. There are lots of possibilities. I had to choose one and run with it.

I hope all of this has been of some help. Choose whatever color you want and paint your model, and have fun.

Greg

Gregvan · 15 July 2007, 12:25 PM

Hi

Student and Leffers weren't the only ones to have German machine guns installed on captured Nieuports. This one was reportedly on the strength of KEK 3 at Douai (also known as KEK Douai). I'm sorry it doesn't supply more details about how the gun was installed.
Greg