Searching for RFC Squadron

GordonLacy · 13 October 2011, 08:44 PM

Hi. I'm trying to identify which Squadron my Grandfather Arthur Ord Lacy flew with in WW1. He was a pilot flying RE8's doing reconnaissance on the Western Front between Oct 18 1917 and June 19 1918. I have his service record but it doesn't give the Squadron number. I have 9 letters as well, but he never mentions the Squadron number. I know he was flying during Operation Michael because he gives some locations and dates. He mentions fighting off 5 Hun Triplanes which is surprising to me if he was in an RE8 at the time (is it not?). I have one picture which might show a squadron marking but it is rather close in and hard to tell, but could possibly be the 9th (although there are two vertical bars and they look to be red not white (but it is a BW photo). I've also seen the flight record for the 59th squadron Jan to June 1918 but it doesn't match up with his letters.
Any help would be appreciated.

R Gannon · 14 October 2011, 04:24 PM

Gordon

I'll see what I can dig up. There are others here too, who might be able to help.

Fighting off 5 Tripes in an RE8 - yes quite plausible, particularly if they managed to cross back over Allied lines.

Cheers Russ

GordonLacy · 24 October 2011, 06:22 PM

Hi R Gannon. I realize that the more specific information I have the better. Here is part of one letter from my Grandfather Arthur Ord Lacy dated March 27th 1918:

As you know the war is very fierce. This morning I had a hard fight with 5 Hun triplanes. I nearly shot one down who dived underneath me. I know I hit him and drove him before me nearly into the ground. I think he had to land. We shook off the others after a hard long fight which lasted 5 minutes or more. The weather is fine and I am well darling. I hope you won’t (worry) because sweet it is no use and I have had four escapes now and I hope God will let me come back again. I have just got orders to go by tender to the coast for a new machine.

And then on April 13th 1918 he writes:

Of course you know that we have been on the Cambrai sailent. I had my great scrap with 5 hun triplanes of Richthoffens great circus close to Albert. I found out since that the circus is all triplanes and all the best hun pilots and shots.

So, I know where and when Arthur was fighting off 5 triplanes and I wonder if anyone knows which squadrons were fighting near Albert on March 27th?

Gordon

R Gannon · 25 October 2011, 06:06 PM

Gordon

Wonderful stuff. That is more helpful. Will get back with more.

Most definately the Triplanes would have been from JG I - Js 6 or Js 11 (von Richthofen).

Indeed I have a hunch about this, but need to check my master logs.

Cheers Russ

GordonLacy · 25 October 2011, 06:18 PM

Hi Russ. Thanks for the reply; I look forward to seeing what you can dig up! Also on the 59'th it appears that the flight log I was looking at was not complete so the 59'th is still in the running. More info: The Squadron commanders name was Greenk, and Arthur had two friends in the same squadron Naylor and Macpherson.

Cheers,

Gordon

R Gannon · 26 October 2011, 10:34 PM

Gordon

I'll leave the question of squadron for now and focus instead on RE8 v Triplane encounters on 27 Mar 18.

You must bare in mind there are many fog of war issues with the claims of pilots of both sides.

At 0920 (German time) Jasta 6 (a Triplane equipped unit) pilot Ltn Janzen was credited with an RE8 to south of Aveluy Wood. There is no reconcilable RFC loss for this claim - Aveluy wood being just to north of Albert.

The Jasta 6 Staffelfuhrer; Obln Reinhard would claim another RE8 at 1140GT to south of Morcourt - but this is somewhat south of Albert.

Then at 1150GT Jasta 11's Ltn Udet was credited with an RE8 near to Albert, credited as his 21st victory. In his book he states the Js 11 patrol was five stong. He would claim the RE8 broke up and fell in German lines!

That said, the only possible contender for either of these two claims is 42 Sqn's B6258 which returned to base with a wounded crew (not your grandfather)

Somewhat to north of Albert 59 Sqn's B7722 (again not Arthur) had a fight with a Jasta 18 Albatros scout; being shot up and forced to land. The German pilot (lTn Muller) was also forced to crash land between the lines!

Otherwise 16 Sqn lost two RE8's in the afternoon whilst on low bombing missions. No Jasta claims however. Indeed I suspect the wreckage of these may have been taken as that of those attacked by Udet & Reinhard in the morning.

On the balance I suspect Arthur's RE8 had been attacked by either Janzen or Udet.

On the bigger picture, in addition to those of 59 Sqn, RE8's from 4 Sqn, 5 sqn, 16 Sqn & 42 Sqn were all committed to low bombing & machine gun attacks 24 - 28 Mar on Third Army front.

Cheers Russ

GordonLacy · 26 October 2011, 10:41 PM

Thanks for the info Russ. I've seen some crew lists for various squadrons; do you know where more comprehensive lists might be found?

fetubi · 27 October 2011, 04:58 AM

Hi Gordon,

I can tell you your grand father was in 59 Squadron - certainly back in the previous December.

I have a record of him crashing in RE8 A4403 of that unit on 2 December 1917 (via an RFC Casualty Report at the National Archives, Kew, London). He was with Observer 2Lt FW Field and crashed while landing back from patrol on bad ground. Both men were thankfully OK.

Hopefully this will help to focus what happened almost three months later a bit more for you. I'll have a look at what I've got on 59 Squadron around that time.

Best Regards,

Trevor

GordonLacy · 27 October 2011, 06:52 AM

Hi fetubi. I'd very much like to see the crash report you have which shows my grandfather crashing. I have no info from that earlier period except for one letter when he first arrived in France back in October. This is exciting. Please let me see what ever information you have.

Best Regards,

Gordon

fetubi · 27 October 2011, 12:57 PM

Sorry Gordon,
All I have is my transcription of the details off the Cas Rep - put on to Excel about 20 years ago when I was writing my book (TSTB). If I am at Kew in the near future I will try and get you a copy of the original Cas Rep (there are over 15,000 of them!). Where are you in the world?

Best Regards,

Trevor