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R Gannon · 22 September 2020, 05:36 PM

Hi

I would not go so far as to say Carter was forced to share the victory with F/Lt SW Rosevear DSC, the narrative of his CR reads, ‘While on patrol over Ypres-Menin area I sighted, and later engaged five EA scouts. I fired at one from point blank range getting off 50 rounds. The EA fell slowly out of control. A pilot from No. 10 Squadron joined in the fight after I started the EA going down, and we both followed him to the ground where he crashed and caught fire. Vicinity, Ypres-Comines Canal. Note: No. 10 Squadron pilot and F.Lt Rosevear decided to share this EA.’

Rosevear had been flying at 12,000ft when he observed the EA formation and Carter’s CR (partly paraphrased in the said history of 10 Sqn RNAS) informs the reader that the Js 3 formation was above the 10 Naval Ops – evidently shadowing it (my study of combats reveals a common Jagdstaffeln tactic of shadowing and then diving & zooming on the rear machines of Allied formations just as they were about to re-cross the lines – the thinking probably being that, the Allied patrol being low of fuel, were unlikely to turn and make a fight of it). Carter’s CR states, ‘…I then attacked a second, over our lines at 8,000 feet and obtained a good position on his tail. I followed this machine down to 50 feet, firing short burst into it and saw it crash and burst into flames…’ So I think it is fair to say that Rosevear stated Puttkamer on his downward spiral and Carter finished him off.

Of course catching a German single-seater over the Allied side was an exceedingly rare event. None the less these rare opportunities allowed Allied pilots the luxury of following opponents down so as to make sure of them; something they could never do fighting the Jagdstaffeln, as they did most of the time, over, often well over the German side; where about 4-5,000ft looks to be the pursuit cut off mark. The rare opportunity also attracted an SE5 from 60 Sqn with 2Lt WM Kent (B4860) also submitting an optimistic CR, ‘I observed three Camels chasing an Albatross scout down and I went down after the Hun and fired both guns into him at a distance of about 400 yards. The machine crashed and burst into flames. I am not sure whether I brought him down or the Camels had previously hit him…’

In the wash up not only did Carter & Rosevear share credit in Communiques, but one will see that 2Lt Kent was also credited with a seemingly separate Albatros listed as captured. This came about because 1 and 10 Naval were attached to 61 Wing on the coast, whilst 60 Sqn were operating with 11 (Army) Wing based around Ypres, so the reports came to RFC HQ by separate channels from different Wing HQs (We see a similar thing with German reporting, as can be seen in a current thread which has meandered onto the action on 26 Sep 18 where pilots from four different staffels, subordinate to different headquarters, were involved in a feeding frenzy for credit over an overwhelmed 99 Sqn bombing formation, and resulting in similar double crediting). This sort of thing happened a lot.

Cheers Russ

PS Js 11 did have a loss on 17 Jul 17.

22 September 2020, 05:36 PM	#7
R Gannon Rest in Peace Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Adelaide Posts: 6,121	Musings of a third rate putterer Hi I would not go so far as to say Carter was forced to share the victory with F/Lt SW Rosevear DSC, the narrative of his CR reads, ‘While on patrol over Ypres-Menin area I sighted, and later engaged five EA scouts. I fired at one from point blank range getting off 50 rounds. The EA fell slowly out of control. A pilot from No. 10 Squadron joined in the fight after I started the EA going down, and we both followed him to the ground where he crashed and caught fire. Vicinity, Ypres-Comines Canal. Note: No. 10 Squadron pilot and F.Lt Rosevear decided to share this EA.’ Rosevear had been flying at 12,000ft when he observed the EA formation and Carter’s CR (partly paraphrased in the said history of 10 Sqn RNAS) informs the reader that the Js 3 formation was above the 10 Naval Ops – evidently shadowing it (my study of combats reveals a common Jagdstaffeln tactic of shadowing and then diving & zooming on the rear machines of Allied formations just as they were about to re-cross the lines – the thinking probably being that, the Allied patrol being low of fuel, were unlikely to turn and make a fight of it). Carter’s CR states, ‘…I then attacked a second, over our lines at 8,000 feet and obtained a good position on his tail. I followed this machine down to 50 feet, firing short burst into it and saw it crash and burst into flames…’ So I think it is fair to say that Rosevear stated Puttkamer on his downward spiral and Carter finished him off. Of course catching a German single-seater over the Allied side was an exceedingly rare event. None the less these rare opportunities allowed Allied pilots the luxury of following opponents down so as to make sure of them; something they could never do fighting the Jagdstaffeln, as they did most of the time, over, often well over the German side; where about 4-5,000ft looks to be the pursuit cut off mark. The rare opportunity also attracted an SE5 from 60 Sqn with 2Lt WM Kent (B4860) also submitting an optimistic CR, ‘I observed three Camels chasing an Albatross scout down and I went down after the Hun and fired both guns into him at a distance of about 400 yards. The machine crashed and burst into flames. I am not sure whether I brought him down or the Camels had previously hit him…’ In the wash up not only did Carter & Rosevear share credit in Communiques, but one will see that 2Lt Kent was also credited with a seemingly separate Albatros listed as captured. This came about because 1 and 10 Naval were attached to 61 Wing on the coast, whilst 60 Sqn were operating with 11 (Army) Wing based around Ypres, so the reports came to RFC HQ by separate channels from different Wing HQs (We see a similar thing with German reporting, as can be seen in a current thread which has meandered onto the action on 26 Sep 18 where pilots from four different staffels, subordinate to different headquarters, were involved in a feeding frenzy for credit over an overwhelmed 99 Sqn bombing formation, and resulting in similar double crediting). This sort of thing happened a lot. Cheers Russ PS Js 11 did have a loss on 17 Jul 17. __________________ Our hearts so stout has got us fame For soon 'tis known from where we came Where'er we go they fear the name Of Garryowen in glory.