The Aerodrome Forum - View Single Post - A non-Bréguet challenge

Aquilius · 7 December 2009, 03:35 AM

Hi Catfish,

please do not think there is no interest in "non-Breguet challenges"!
It's just you found a real rarity here! I couldn't say what it is by a finger snip only.

And then I do not have to much time for a deeper research (exams on thursday...) but I took a few minutes last night to see what I have on Union designes, by your assumption.

After all I think you are not that far away.
There was this "Bomhard Pfeil-Doppeldecker" built by the Union Flugzeugwerke, the first aircraft after a possibly second "Monobiplan" or whatever, if the statement is right that Bomhard built a similar model to the Lohner machine with Union.

I only have this head-on shot, but the main feats - wing design and engine covering are recognisable.
• the wings are heavily arrowed and the upper wings seem to move downward at the end
• while the lower wings have some 'hammock'-appearance (also visible in your pic)
• two upright and one pair of oblique outer struts.
• gravity tank ontop the center section
• and an unique metal engine covering. (If I can trust my eyes, these star-shaped incisions at the front are visible in your side-view as well)

I think we can agree, as all the main features are similar in both pics, we are probably looking at the same design here -> the Bomhard designed Pfeil-Doppeldecker. I have not seen it from the side and did not know of the slim looking fuselage.

This was the forerunner of the record plane (planes?) flown by Sablatnig at the Herbstflugwoche 1913. I do not know exactly when it was completed, but Sablatnig has been in Vienna with it (this Bomhard Pfeil-DD) and won some prices at the 2. International Flugmeeting at the Aspern Airfield. Need to look up the dates, but they were usually held in spring/early summer (May or June).

The machine often photographed in Johannisthal in Oktober 1913 with "U 1" at the tailfin was another design that belonged to series of 5 different planes "Union Pfeil-Doppeldecker". I have 5 different machines that varied in engines and wing design, but all are known under one name only and all appeared 1913. I numbered them Nr.1 - Nr.5, but not neccessarily in the right order.

Bomhard had also his fingers in the developement, together with Sablatnig and König.

You secondary hints with the caption were not of big help for me. And I'm not an airship expert. But LZ 17 "Sachsen" was, if I'm not mistaken, the airship with 419 journeys until WW1, the most among all Zeppelins. It probably has been everywhere in Germany.
I had no idea why this Union biplane has been in Dresden. Please can you give a source of that. And finally, I'm not sure if this machine was capable doing loops at all.

If there is more to find, then on friday.

Cheers

Aquilius

7 December 2009, 03:35 AM	#3
Aquilius Forum Ace Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Thuringia Posts: 2,179	Hi Catfish, please do not think there is no interest in "non-Breguet challenges"! It's just you found a real rarity here! I couldn't say what it is by a finger snip only. And then I do not have to much time for a deeper research (exams on thursday...) but I took a few minutes last night to see what I have on Union designes, by your assumption. After all I think you are not that far away. There was this "Bomhard Pfeil-Doppeldecker" built by the Union Flugzeugwerke, the first aircraft after a possibly second "Monobiplan" or whatever, if the statement is right that Bomhard built a similar model to the Lohner machine with Union. I only have this head-on shot, but the main feats - wing design and engine covering are recognisable. • the wings are heavily arrowed and the upper wings seem to move downward at the end • while the lower wings have some 'hammock'-appearance (also visible in your pic) • two upright and one pair of oblique outer struts. • gravity tank ontop the center section • and an unique metal engine covering. (If I can trust my eyes, these star-shaped incisions at the front are visible in your side-view as well) I think we can agree, as all the main features are similar in both pics, we are probably looking at the same design here -> the Bomhard designed Pfeil-Doppeldecker. I have not seen it from the side and did not know of the slim looking fuselage. This was the forerunner of the record plane (planes?) flown by Sablatnig at the Herbstflugwoche 1913. I do not know exactly when it was completed, but Sablatnig has been in Vienna with it (this Bomhard Pfeil-DD) and won some prices at the 2. International Flugmeeting at the Aspern Airfield. Need to look up the dates, but they were usually held in spring/early summer (May or June). The machine often photographed in Johannisthal in Oktober 1913 with "U 1" at the tailfin was another design that belonged to series of 5 different planes "Union Pfeil-Doppeldecker". I have 5 different machines that varied in engines and wing design, but all are known under one name only and all appeared 1913. I numbered them Nr.1 - Nr.5, but not neccessarily in the right order. Bomhard had also his fingers in the developement, together with Sablatnig and König. You secondary hints with the caption were not of big help for me. And I'm not an airship expert. But LZ 17 "Sachsen" was, if I'm not mistaken, the airship with 419 journeys until WW1, the most among all Zeppelins. It probably has been everywhere in Germany. I had no idea why this Union biplane has been in Dresden. Please can you give a source of that. And finally, I'm not sure if this machine was capable doing loops at all. If there is more to find, then on friday. Cheers Aquilius